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tv   ABC 7 News at 4PM  ABC  September 14, 2011 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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is to blame forgiving solyndra that loan that may never be repaid. mark? >> white house e mails show that the obama administration had concerns about the loan to solyndra and republicans are counting on the fact one of the major investors is a big fund-raiser for president obama. the solar panel company had it's government loan guaranteed fast tracked shortly after the president obama took office. the president vitited this plant in may, 2010 and back then there were warning signs that it was in financial trouble. >> i thought solar costs were just very high. >> at the time of the visit this reporter wrote about the financial challenges facing solyndra. today on capitol hill, republicans pressed for answers. >> documents demonstrate when d.o.e.was reviewing the
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guarantee in 2009 waits well aware of the problem autos we seem to be having technical difficulties. this morning, republicans made a point of saying you've got a big obama supporter, a big supporter in solyndra. the loan was fast tracked after obama took office and there were objections under the bush administration. democrats tried to unwind thal investigation saying the loan was applied for under the bush administration and okayed under the bush administration. and that there were only some questions that needed to be filled in before approved after obama took over. the real meat of the hearing in washington, d.c. is going to take place later. probably next week. and the chief financial officer and chief economic officers due to testify and
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democrats and republicans want to know why they were told everybody was going to be fine and a month later declared bankruptcy. now getting $535 million back is going to be a problem. >> we heard you talking about how members of the committee are saying that solyndra applied in 2006 and so does the bush administration sign off? >> they did up to a point. right before george bush left office, a committee advising the loan said we've got questions and are going to cutoff conversation was solyndra. we need answers to questions. republicans are making a big deal about that, saying look. look. they're going to shelf the loob. it's not true. they said we're going to put this aside and once answers come back, then, we can move forward. they came back that same committee green lighted the
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loan gair run teechl by that time, obama was in the white house. >> yes. >> and the department of energy has handed out $8 billion in loan guarantee was nornl so billion. what is their batting average? and there is one republican asking is this the tip of the ice sfwherg. >> it was the first to go out. it takes a while to figure out whether or not these investments goring to pay off. so right now, they're 0 for 1. some other investments made seem less risky than this start up of a company making solar panels in a way that most of the rest of the solar panel operators were proceeding. and it turned out that the competition just could make them cheaper. i think i heard today that solar panels drop in price by
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42% just since january of this year. >> wow. that is remarkable. and there is more still to come next week. thank you. >> yes. >> after more than a week of weekly protests, bart media strategy now under fire because e mails that have just surfaced. what is the latest? >> this is about a month ago bart held a news conference defending a decision to cutoff cell phone service during a planned protest. and well, this e mail showed something else happened, and critics say it crosses the line. >> august 11, the bart chief spokesman asked an ordinary rider to step toupt microphone in a news conference about the protests. >> i think the bart train acting like hooligans is not
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accomplishing anything. >> one of the only riders bart invited to speak is just the only one who showed up. it turns out johnson sent out an e mail asking his staff to gather quote a large group of customers together who are loyal riders to participate in this news conference, telling the staff make sure they can get to the location safely and on time. and maybe get a van or a special train. bart staff wound up chartering two su. vs from a car service. and no one routed them, bart still had to pay the bill. >> how much did you spend? >> 842s oodz this board member believes it was a bad move by the pr department and tried to sway public opinion. in fact, franklin acknowledges staff wrote a script for riders to read from. >> i do not think it's appropriate to pay to transport people z also to, provide a script for them.
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people can express what they want. >> i find it deplorable they can waste taxpayer money. >> this organizer says it shows bart needs to make big change autos someone to be in trouble for that. >> and bart chief spoke manz is not in trouble according to board member franklin saying johnson still has a job here. johnson has been on extended family leave for a few weeks and his office has not returned our calls this afternoon. >> thank you, jonathan. let's go back live now to our story we began our newscast with. the fire in san jose. sky 7 is live above this condo complex on bear valley lane. joining us is the captain spokesperson for san jose fire department. captain, what is the situation? looks like the flames are out at this point. is that correct? >> most flames have been knocked down at this time.
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you can see smoke because there is still fire burning. two units, the six-plex. we had now a three-alarm fire here and 70 firefighters. we had to vacate two units. ones you can see the smoke coming from. and we need to get our firefighters out of there because it's a danger of collapse. just got reported to me we've transported one patient to valley medical. second degree burns to legs and another one just walked up who has smoke inhalation. both are civilians. >> thank you. a couple injuries at this point. you're getting your people out of there. and it can just be in this immediate area? >> pardon me? >> is the fire contained to this immediate unit we're seeing now? this one? it hasn't spread beyond that? >> no. the fire is here in this six-plex.
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six units, six detached garages. most garages and units were involved in the fire. yeah. >> captain, thank you very much for your time. two injuries and hopefully, no more than that. >> thanks, thank you. >> that is contained. >> and captain we appreciate the time. moving on. an engine problem forced emergency evacuation of a plane bound for san francisco. passengers included a u.s. supreme court justice. united flight 586 on the taxiway in wad this morning, passengers and crew noticed smoke coming from the rear of the plane. passengers evacuated on emergency slides including justice ruth ginzberg. a total of 185 people were on board. united says one person was taken to the hospital. passengers have been rebooked on other flights and justice ginzberg expected to land here this evening. >> and we're learning more about a convicted felon in san jose arrested for having a
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stockpile of explosives, guns and ammunition in his home. the bomb squad blup eight explosive devices. and investigators also found 40-50 firearms with ammunition. police arrested this man, a 63-year-old on charges of making criminal threats and illegally possessing weapons. convicted felons are banned from possessing firearms and explosives. his roommate claim they were left over 4th of july fire works. >> he's got a brain tumor and is on medication. sometimes, he doesn't take proper medication, he'll be grumbling. someone took a grumble for a threat. >> he does have 15 prior convictions. for some reason not on a state list of felons banned from possessing weapons. >> and a lawyer for two uc berkeley graduates say
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arrangements are being made to pay their bail. the hikers have been in prison more than two years and were accused of spying. their lawyer doesn't know who is putting up the bail money. the gulf state of oman sent a private plane to the area this, is the same procedure just before the third hiker was freed last year. iran's judish yairy says the bail deal needs their review. >> students in a san francisco school for young artists have a clear link to the woman who made it possible for them to get specialized education. and we're live from the school of the arts. >> she led the movement to create a school of the arts near san francisco. and fought to bring art to every classroom in california that. is why today art activists and lawmakers came to seat renaming of the san francisco
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school of the arts. it's now called the ruth asawa school of the arts. and this is a prominent artist whose work is displayed all over zpit at the deyoung museum. now, she also overcame a difficult period in her live. she and her family were interned with many other japanese americans and she studied at black mountain college. and today, she was honored for her commitment to art programs throughout california schools. and among them attending was peter coyote who years ago served on the council. >> and this is just sinful that the art is not funded. like sending your kid out in the winter with a glove and a shoe. what about the other half of
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the human experience? it's no accident our economy is getting it's butt whipped by asian country that's put skpart design as part of their education. >> and she is 85 years old and members of the family were here. the school started in 1982 and i can tell you if you google san francisco school of the arts, it says ruth asawa school of the arts. this is foggy and cold. >> let's get a check of the weather. >> and spencer christian is here. we don't like this, spencer. >> and there are low clouds and fog this afternoon along the coast and over the bay.
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that is going to be conditions this evening as well. clouds increasing this evening. and temperatures into early evening hours ranging from 54 near the coast to mid-70s inland. early in the morning we may have drizzle near the coast and there are lots of clouds lingering and temperatures from about 60 degrees, afternoon sunshine and lingering clouds and this is highs from mid-50s near the coast to upper 70s inland. so how much cooler? how much longer? the answer is in the accu-weather forecast coming up later. >> thank you. and this camera shows how your blood is flowing. creepy. but koit lead to revolutionary treatments for burn victims. >> and facebook taking a wit wait and see approach. our live report from bloomberg west is coming up. >> and michael finney taking your consumer questions through his face book and
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twitter pages. we have links on abc 7 news.com.
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checking healthy living news a swiss company has developed a camera showing how blood is circulating through the skin in realtime. the camera designed to help burn victims and determines whether burned tissue can be saved by seeing whether blood is circulating in a particular area, red means high blood flow, blue, low. experts say if it's flowing the tissue can heal on its own f not, skin grafts are needed. the machine works by firing laser beams on the skin. >> and on to business news now. hewlett-packard is irritating
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stockholders and yahoo investors calling for its own investor to step down. and there is emily chang with today's after the bell report. >> well, a yahoo investor wants a bigger piece of the action and wants the chairman out. third point ramped up pressure to get chairman out while is working to add to its 5.2% stake in yahoo. according to the filing third point said he told jerry yang he'll take, whatever efforts necessary to remove mr. bastak from the board and saying he'd seek us aus proveal to buy mora hoo stock. he fired carol barts by phone last week z hewlett-packard investors are to say the least, according to a new report investors getting frustrated with hp's plan to buy the
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software company and spin off pc business. and analyst says the overwhelming majority of large hp shareholders oppose that deal, adding irritation with the company is the highest the firm has seen in 13 years. and shares of the computer giant have been down this year 45%. now, let's check the market today. stocks shot higher on positive news on european debt troubles. and microsoft is in the news today, ceo steve balmer says it will keep windows operating system at the heart of the strategy. it's looking to work with new types of computing devices and said developers down loaded 500,000 copies of the preview version of windows 8 unveiled yesterday. at bloomberg studios i'm emily chang with bloomberg west.
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>> there is chatter about fac facebook delaying its ipo. why wait? what is going on? >> you know, we've seen multiple reports about facebook delaying ipo. whether or not it's going to ipo at all. and about an hour ago on bloomberg west put that question to a visiting scholar at uc berkeley and he said he applauds mark zuckerberg for delaying ipo is he can take his time building the company up where it needs to be before hitting public markets and he has to deal with nasty investor calls. thinks it should be to list facebook at a smaller value and let it build up slowly. >> interesting. thank you. emily chang from bloomberg west. >> we can see it's gray out there. >> yes. >> gray along the coast and over the bay.
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there are sunny skies inland. >> and increasing rain, too. there is a live view and there is lots of clouds and more wide spread later this evening. right now looking at temperatures into low to mid-80s, 70s in other locations. 60s around the bay so this is wide spread low clouds tonight. and there are temperatures starting to rebound. clouds near the coast, sunny skies inland and there is a deeper marine layer. temperatures coming down a bit. upper level low bringing us instability beginning to pull, push inland there. is a line of thunderstorms over the sierra. so still active weather there but the low moves inland tomorrow. and cool air coming into our
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direction from the gulf of alaska bringing our temperatures down. overnight tonight mild and there are another cool day. highs reaching only into upper 60s to low 70s and there is mid-50s on the coast. downtown a high of 59 degrees tomorrow. up into the north bay, cooling as well. and there is way up north, mid-80s, mid east bay highs into 60s. and there is mid-70s about as warm as it's going to get. near monterey bay, 60s near the bay. a couple cool days this time of the year coming our way. and we start to warm up over the weekend and by tuesday, wednesday, and thursday back up to 90 degrees and 80s around the bay this, will not last too long, things improving if you look at it that way over the weekend. >> dark out there now.
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>> it is. really. yes. >> thank you. >> okay. >> and speaking of dark, johnny depp is jumping on the vampire band wagon. >> nom mes are -- nominees are on the red carpet. >> top entertainment news will be music to your ears. this morning nominee as announced for 12th annual latin grammy awards. and shakira scored three nominations, ricky martin scored three nods. and winners announced on november 10th this, sunday is a prime time emmys and this morning. the host talks about preps for the big day. >> and something happened today. i feel a little -- it's a known entity. >> this are place cards set
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showing where major stars will sit. and johnny depp is in production for "dark shadows". depp is a huge fan of the original "dark shadows" which ran for more than 1200 episodes. >> and i don't know what i'm recording. >> looks like my house. >> and finding out what they're recording thanks to a grand daughter and at 4:30 we'll take tout bay area's most-polluted waterway autos then at 5:00 local moms taking on a fight against world wide poverty putting on a party. you're invited.
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an older couple has made i you tube hit. >> they recorded themselves trying to use their new web cam. take a look. >> look at the monkey. >> did it capture? i put it on capture. >> that is a monkey. >> and it is. and they live in hillside retirement community in oregon. three weeks ago they upgraded to a lap top and decided to tryout a web cam, something their granddaughter tried to teach them. >> and in three minutes the couple made monkey faces, sang, burped and waited for a signal the camera was recording. >> i had no idea what to do
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it. the whole time i was just irritated and chewing gum so hard. i looked like... like this. >> their granddaughter titled video web cam 101 for seniors. >> i'd like to say that could never happen in my house. however, we look at this and there is still ahead, is it street art? or just graffiti? >> we're live at controversy in this neighborhood. >> and in san francisco, the cpuc takes up a thorny question of smart meter programs opt out choices. what will they be? how much will they cost you? >> and there is temperatures falling lower, i'll take a look coming up. so...what do you think? i'm not crazy about these light fixtures. kitchen's too small.
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people who don't want pg&e smart kbleerts installed are getting closer to an opt out option. >> it could cost them. and we're live in san francisco for us. >> and there was such public outcry against pg&e smart meter program, last year, cpuc ordered utility to come up with an opt out program.
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getting there is excruciating. today supposed to be a chance for interested parties to get details about options from pg&e and the other state utilities. the point of today's work shop was to explore feesibility of different options but the law judge in charge had a hard time keeping participants on the subject. >> okay. is there some way for to us terminate the web cast at this point? i'm going to shut down this work shop. >> most opposition to smart meters come from people who say radio transmissions make them sick. pg&e preferred option is to install but turn off radio transmitter, it's proposal includes charging opt out customers one upfront fee of 270s wind advisories a monthly charge of $14, or a lower upfront fee with a higher monthly charge of 20. pg&e says it would cover the
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cost of meter readers. >> idea of charging people extra after they've been charged extra increases in their rates so opt out of the program, is absurd and illegal. it's like charging disabled people to access a wheelchair ramp. >> a utility watch dog says it will now have to fight to get the information it needs from pg&e. >> unidea is that they can turn off the radio instead of having to go out manually. said that might cost as much as to go out there. their vendor finally admitted it might cost less. >> and pg&e says it's preferred option radio off option is the only one that truly financially and technically feesible. it has installed so far between eight and nine million of the smart kbleerts targeting completion next year
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of 10 million. >> and pg&e says this is the best and only option. are there others under consideration? >> there are others including a wired smart meter and pg&e says so many of them have been recycled or too old to use safely and that it's hard these days to get new analog meter autos and when will the final decision be made on this? >> probably not until next year. so the administrative law judge gets the first crack and will have to pass muster with all five commissioners. >> and there is a local environmental group with a list polluted areas in the bay area. saying there is toxic levels
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of trash. save the bay says it's working with local governments to try to reduce trash at the source before it gets into the water. >> huge percentage of the trash in the bay is plastic bags and food packaging and plastic is a huge problem. it lasts forever in the environment. >> and it is asking for volunteers to the clean up day to help remove trash. >> a pursuit in san rafael ended with a driver slamming into a deli. chp tried to pull over the driver for erratic driving and he refused to stop. >> and all 24 lanes of the u.s. entrance along a border crossing are closed right now
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after construction scaffolding there collapsed. it fell at the nation's busiest border crossing. three people were taken to the hospital. >> and there is a battle over graffiti in san francisco. the scrawls of taggers are being painted over with images of koi. but not everyone appreciates the fish. >> and the artist tells me he's created 3,000 images of koi fish all over san francisco this week. many are right here in the area. take a look at these. this is a debate whether this is little and are they art? or just a form of tag something take a look now. and there is where you can decide if these are works of art. and they're nothing like scrawls you might see
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elsewhere. and there is a rigorous graffiti abaitment program f there is vandalism, and in front of you, you're responsible. some people in the neighborhood saying that the koi, if pretty might encourage more graffiti. the artist thinks it's just the opposite. >> the fact they cover up a lot of graffiti tags and vandalism is helping and does better to the community. >> some people don't want the koi and there is no permission, there is no communication between artist and the person who is supposed to take care of the sidewalk. i think that is a problem. >> and the director of the department of public works says the difference of what is considered graffiti and what is not is not just in the eye
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of the beholder but in the property owner f they give an artist permission to paint a mural on the wall or fish like this on the sidewalk, this is not illegal. jeremy tells us he asked permission for the koi. some people in the neighborhood are not sure. >> and how do they know if the property owner has given perm mission? >> it's complaint-oriented. and if someone says i can see this graffiti there that, is when they do something about it. >> and the artist wants to remain anonymous. is that an ace bandage? no this is a mask, part of his persona. he's an artist. >> thank you. >> and i thought he's trying
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to remain anonymous. a woman police say confused a bookstore with a day care center. >> and michael finney is still taking questions on twitter and facebook and will answer them live later. there are links for you now at abc 7 news.com. >> and happy to report airports are reporting ontime arriveals with exception of locations in the northeastern mid at that time lantic. thunderstorms producing delays. both washington, d.c. area airports are reporting delays because of thunderstorms. and la dwauda and newark, more on the cool down coming up in just a moment. abc 7 news at 4:00 continues. [ female announcer ] at jcpenney we're giving you
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a big thank you this friday & saturday. get an extra 20% off when you use your jcpenney rewards credit card. don't have a card, you still get an extra 15% off. no exclusions. go to jcp.com to see everything on sale. jcpenney. a woman once arrested for kidnapping children is running for a school board seat in northern california. the 70-year-old a former teacher is on the november ballot for the fairfield school board election. some are concerned about that. and she was arrested in 1998 after taking four girls from a bus stop. >> i made a mistake. i made a -- i committed a crime against the children. i spent my time in jail. it's done. i've paid my debt to society this, campaign is not about me. it's about the students and what is going to happen in the
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future. >> under a deal with prosecutors she was never convicted of any crime but did spend a year in a psychiatric hospital after pleading not guilty to four counts of abduction. an alabama mother has been arrested for using a bookstore as a day care saying she dropped off her 7 and 11-year-old children from sock in the morning until 5:00 at night at least three times, officer as rested her. the workers called police because they were worried about the children. they say the kids were well behaved and didn't cause problems. >> still head a look at nasa's future, officials say thil this will allow the united states to do something no other nation can do. >> also adult sand box giving tourists and laid off construction workers something else to do in las vegas.
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you've probably heard las vegas described as an adult playground. >> absolutely what. is a playground without a sand box? and dan ashley is live with the new attraction. >> it let's you live out any bob the builder fantasies you might v it's more than just fun. it's also giving jobs to some out of work construction workers.
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sand boxes are usually reserve forward kids in the backyard. >> and just off the loss las vegas strip arks dults are getting a way to play. for a few hundred dollars, would be construction workers get a lesson and start digging and moving dirt. >> it's much different. i thought it would be like arcade machines and the thing comes down. >> it doesn't take a brawny construction worker to get them working but does take concentration. >> in those machines, it doesn't mean anything. you have forgoten about stresses. they have to focus on the equipment. >> they're guided by trainers talking through head sets. some, like travis mills worked construction before. >> i don't get yelled at by my superintendent all day. and i mean, i like being around equipment. >> it's a good time to be out of actual construction. the industry is hurting for jobs now in sin city and home
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sales struggle. >> a lot of my construction friends are at home. there is nothing going on. >> and this is hoping lesson woz give tourists one more thing to try. >> and there is a better understanding. >> just another day in the sand box. big kids playing with big toys. >> and this includes a 10 minute classroom lesson and several hours of dirty work. so step away from the slot machine. hit the sand pile. they say what happens in vegas stays in vegas. you'd end upbringing home sand. >> that is a cool thing. >> and you love that? >> yes. >> that is the last thing i'm doing if i'm going to las vegas. i'm glad you'd have a good time. >> skb what an opportunity.
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>> still ahead this afternoon. >> this is not a big deal. >> a first look at damage from an attack. officials there say they're not too worried. >> and from 7 on your side, i have a good question about mattress price-matching deals that seem so good. your consumer questions answered, next. >> coming up at 5:00 a bay area paramedic honored as a hero for this daring rescue.
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michael finney is here to answer questions. >> the first one is about noise and bart. >> this came by twitter. here it is. is bart required to minimize a track noise over a bridge canal in walnut creek?
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is there a good neighbor requirement? bart has no obligation because it's already under 110 decibels. however there is a grinding program going over tracks and quiets them f you have a particular problem in your neighborhood, uncan call up bart and complain. they'll check it out. if it's louder than other sections, then, they'll move up the work on that area and get it done sooner rather than later, it's worth your time to ask about that. and there is a question through mike s. i heard mattress bee hailers offer refunds to people who find mattresses cheaper after the purchase but don't manufacturers change the cover and serial numbers on the same mattress for different retailers? so they never have to pay up? i don't know why, but that does happen. the same -- nearly the same will be sold by different
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retailers, it's hard to kplair because a cover may be different. there may be more or less springs. what you need to do is check a model number because often that will be the same. or you can check the exact same mattress at different retailers and say the ones that are specific to that retailer you're not going to look at. but you ought to go out and find the mattress you want, know what you're looking for, then price check across stores you're looking at and trust, then buy the mattress, trying to go back later to shop, pick up more money that, almost never happens. and that is why they like to offer that guarantee. kate asks are preschool and private school tuitions negotiatable? you bet. everything s they're not going to say that to you. they're not going to be that upfront saying come in and let's bargain. but they generally offer deals
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because maybe of how much money you make, where you live. so what you should always do is apply for financial aid. and to see if you fit criteria. just say i know i'm not going to qualify. they may be looking for someone from your area of town, someone with your price set. so always ask, see what you can get. then tell them i'm price sensitive, trying to get the price down. >> there is breaking news. our media portner reporting san francisco managing general manager bill newcomb will not be returning. >> he has been asked to step aside by the giants ownership group believed to be a fallout with a series of disagreements during his three-year stewardship of the team. >> it's surprising given they just won the world series last
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year. and there is a lot going on behind the scenes nobody was aware of right now. >> and let's check on the forecast. >> spencer christian joins use cool downs appear to be popular. it will be cooling down rather significantly across the country tomorrow, take a look at highs tomorrow only into 50s. and there is 62 st. louis. 64, denver, dallas, 4 tomorrow, dallas has been in the hundreds most of the summer, one warm spot is phoenix with, a high of 96 degrees. and there is a cool down tomorrow. and 91 fres know, 97 palm springs. and 70 in big sur, closer to home this, is how things will shape up. and there is a cool down going to take us into the weekend. highs tomorrow into 70s and 78
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in antioch z you'll have to travel north to find 80s tomorrow. 85 will be the high in clear lake. and closer to the bay, 64 in oakland tomorrow. 66 palo alto. 59 will be the high in san francisco. half moon bay there is a high of 56 degrees and there is similar conditions farther south. there is low to mid 60s in watsonville. inland, often sizzling at this time of the year, 75 in gilroy. 76, morgan hill. more on our accu-weather forecast coming up. >> and tonight u.s. officials trying to down play yesterday's attack on the u.s. embassy and nato buildings in kabul, afghanistan. the siege lasted nearly 20 hours. >> when over, 16 afghan police officers and civilians were killed. stit zpit the death, the u.s.
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ambassador claims waits not significant. >> half a dozen rpg rounds from 800 meters away, that is harassment. if that is the best they can do, it's a statement of their weakness. >> the taliban claimed responsibility for this attack. >> wall street rallied thanks to a promise to help greece avoid default. >> leaders of greece, france and germany made the pact. officials in greece said they'd stick to their promises to cut nation's debt. cuts have sparked major kbrofts by workers tlchl the news calmed international economic fear that's greece was head forward a default or might be forced to drop the euro. >> stocks up sharply after today's announcement. dow clogsed up 140 points. and there is s and p closed up 15. >> now, the shuttle program ended nasa is on to the next big project. >> space launch system.
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this will carry astronauts in a capsule it will be the most-powerful ever built. nasa says it will provide the u.s. with ability to go beyond the earth orbit. the first unmanned test flight expected to take place in 2017. >> and thanks for joining us for abc 7 news at 4:00. >> the tuesday at ak continue nouz with dan and cheryl. >> there is breaking news. how did a convicted felon get a stockpile of weapons tonight? >> police call it a family affair. the mortgage ring that prayed on elderly spanish speakers. >> and 7 on your side tells where you can get your hands on red hot missoni collection that sold out in 90 minutes. >> in san jose, one man ended
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up in the hospital with second degree burns to his log leg ootz fire started around 3:00 in saichl-unit building on bear valley lane. flames gutted two units and spread to the attic area above other four units. >> part of the roof caved in. firefighters pulled out of of the building because they're worried it might collapse, too. >> one man banged on doors trying to alert residents about the danger. >> i just started banging on doors and windows and trying to -- if anyone was sleeping i wanted to make sure they were aware of the fire. >> paramedics transported the victim to valley medical center, another complained of smoke inhalation. >> and new information tonight about the background of a san jose man caught hiding weapons and explosives. >> he faces more than 100 charges. a block around his house was evacuated for 12

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